tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8117439219993737916.post9138012686829832301..comments2023-06-11T04:55:09.337-07:00Comments on Alms for Oblivion: The Most/Least Desirable Women in FictionThomas Bankshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06855333805635398250noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8117439219993737916.post-48100241082801731992007-12-13T11:17:00.000-08:002007-12-13T11:17:00.000-08:00Penelope can fool the suitors, but I wouldn't nece...Penelope can fool the suitors, but I wouldn't necessarily say that she is ambiguous. She seemed to me to be merely flat. (That doesn't mean that she isn't desirable, I suppose.) As far as being aetherial is concerned, you might include Lavinia (Virgil). Actually, I'm not sure if she's aetherial as much as being a manikin. But what was it that caused you to leave Dido off the list of desirable women?Notes from the Undergroundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00645551418730467437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8117439219993737916.post-42937393330980165732007-12-12T13:26:00.000-08:002007-12-12T13:26:00.000-08:00A Doll's House.A Doll's House.Colin Clouthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11836100534647181995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8117439219993737916.post-83821655411651848832007-12-12T11:56:00.000-08:002007-12-12T11:56:00.000-08:00Matt, Katie-Thanks for the comments. BTW, Matt-Who...Matt, Katie-<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the comments. <BR/><BR/>BTW, Matt-<BR/><BR/>Who's Nora?Thomas Bankshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06855333805635398250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8117439219993737916.post-69824607902281150622007-12-12T11:07:00.000-08:002007-12-12T11:07:00.000-08:00p.s. because you can't marry Calypso.p.s. because you can't marry Calypso.Ibidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07917932517349711431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8117439219993737916.post-30392817100460099642007-12-12T11:06:00.000-08:002007-12-12T11:06:00.000-08:00Tom,I think you are going to marry a sweet girl wh...Tom,<BR/><BR/>I think you are going to marry a sweet girl who doesn't talk back to you, but you will no doubt love her. You can always argue with the guys.Ibidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07917932517349711431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8117439219993737916.post-58171404064856952762007-12-12T07:34:00.000-08:002007-12-12T07:34:00.000-08:00Matt-Thanks- I do know that Beatrice isn't strictl...Matt-<BR/><BR/>Thanks- I do know that Beatrice isn't strictly spiritual, and certainly not to Dante- My point is that she has so little of what constitutes a real personality (Same with Una and Gloriana) that she might as well be. <BR/><BR/>I know it is odd to level that accusation at those particular two poets taken together, since their manners are usually 180 degrees apart; as one critic said "Give Dante a figment, and he will make it fleshly; Give Spenser a substance, and he will make it a symbol."Thomas Bankshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06855333805635398250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8117439219993737916.post-84929720368945737962007-12-11T21:46:00.000-08:002007-12-11T21:46:00.000-08:00Hmm...So here's my list:1. The Shulamite2. Beatr...Hmm...<BR/><BR/>So here's my list:<BR/><BR/>1. The Shulamite<BR/>2. Beatrice<BR/>3. Lamia<BR/>4. Beatrice (Shakespeare) <BR/>5. Clorinda (Tasso) <BR/><BR/>(I left off Austen, I think her heroines are wonderful, but I don't think they quite make the top five. (Though probably the top six.) I think she does a better job of portraying the longed for man than the longed for woman 'cause she longed for that man. Her women are excellent, but aren't portrayed quite so striking as others.)<BR/><BR/>And not so fines:<BR/><BR/>I'm not so good at this.<BR/><BR/>1. Anna Livia Plurabelle. (Finnegans Wake) The whole book is a must skip.<BR/>2. Biddy<BR/>3. Estella<BR/>4. Molly Bloom<BR/>5. Nora<BR/><BR/>That last one's a little cheap, I'm having trouble comming up with anything.Colin Clouthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11836100534647181995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8117439219993737916.post-11502861610642033502007-12-11T21:42:00.000-08:002007-12-11T21:42:00.000-08:00I've never been able to image Beatrice as even rem...I've never been able to image Beatrice as even remotely good looking.Evan Gunnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444936166465498497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8117439219993737916.post-32556567877261381422007-12-11T21:23:00.000-08:002007-12-11T21:23:00.000-08:00I think you are misreading Dante and Spenser. Man...I think you are misreading Dante and Spenser. Many silly modern comentators think Beatrice is aetherial, but the whole point in Dante is that she isn't. Likewise, the whole point in Spenser is that Una isn't just aetherial. The false one Archimago forms is, the false Florimell Archimago forms is, but Una (and Gloriana) are <I>not</I>.<BR/><BR/>I suppose you could say "Dante wasn't married to Beatrice" but, I think that misses the point. Dante <I>was</I> in love with her, and longed for the sort of total communion with Beatrice that is acheived only in sex. Yes, he understood he could never, in this life (but he most emphatically believed in the resurrection of the body) have be so united to her, but he still absolutely longed for that union.[1] "And then may it be pleasing to Him who is the Lord of courtesy, that my soul might go to see the glory of its lady, that is of that blessed Beatrice, who gloriously gazes on the face of Him qui est per omnia secula benedictus: who is blessed throughout all the ages."<BR/><BR/>And well, Una and the St. George get married. And Arthur and Gloriana will eventually.<BR/><BR/>______<BR/>[1] Not that he thought he could have sex with her in the new earth. But that he thought perhaps on the New Earth--where we will be like the angels in heaven--he could be fully united to her, as we here are only partially united in sex.Colin Clouthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11836100534647181995noreply@blogger.com